The conversation opened with a point I have made often: digital finance did not reduce the cost of credit for the poor in any country. The venture model rewarded user acquisition and monetisation, not structural change. That sets the stage for the larger transition we are living through — banking and finance are moving away from a transaction-driven system toward one in which value is created by the scale and structure of networks.
We also explored why CBDCs lost momentum once banks saw that a true central bank digital currency would bypass them altogether. The system has rotated toward tokenised deposits while stablecoins already perform real economic work in markets excluded by legacy financial rails.
Here are some of the themes Steve and I discussed:
- Inclusive finance versus monetisation: what the lending data actually shows
- Personalisation versus centralisation: the real contest behind crypto and platforms
- CBDCs, tokenised deposits and stablecoins: what stalled and what survived in digital money
- Markets to networks: why information, not assets, becomes the compounding unit of value
- Debt as the economy: how sovereign liabilities, once digitised, will shape returns and policy
- Leapfrog payment markets: what China, India and Africa reveal about new financial infrastructure
The conversation ties closely to the arguments I make in The Great Transition. If you are following the shift from institution-led finance to user-led networks — and the geopolitical consequences of that shift — this episode will be relevant to how the future of banking and finance will unfold.
Watch the full interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uG56DdI1Kg
